Over the next few days the Vote No blog will be presenting a few excellent articles from the MandM blog which take a deeper look at the real issues of the smacking debate. Today’s featured article is entitled No Defences Permitted For The Accused.
In, The referendum campaign is underway, No Right Turn’s Idiot/Savant gives an excellent example of an argument we see coming up a lot in the debate around the upcoming referendum on smacking. In addition to trotting out the standard ad hominem, that everyone who supports the reinstatement of the old section 59 of the Crimes Act is a “child-beater,” I’d like to examine the emphasised part:Over the next month I expect to see a succession of unhinged press releases from the child-beaters claiming that the law somehow impinges on their religious freedom or has caused the widespread persecution of parents. It does nothing of the sort. What it has done is prevent parents who punch their children in the face or beat them with a soup ladle from claiming a defence of “reasonable force”. And that is unequivocally a Good Thing. The only people who oppose that are people who wish to abuse children in that way - and we should treat them with the contempt they deserve.
Essentially Idiot/Savant here claims the parent in his example are guilty, apriori, and as such, when they go to trial, they should not be able to attempt to raise a defence. The problem is that the whole point of having a trial is to determine guilt or innocence. Even when it seems pretty obvious, trials are still necessary and the right to due process still applies. This right to due process includes, alongside the presumption of innocence, a right to raise a defence, no matter how stupid or implausible, and have the court assess it. The importance of this concept can be summed up by Blackstone’s Ratio, “Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer.”Supporters of the anti-smacking law do not seem to get this. This ‘claiming a defence’ issue has been raised a lot ever since Sue Bradford first began promoting her bill to remove the old s59 defence, of reasonable force for the purposes of correction, from the Crimes Act. If you read the Vote Yes site, if you read the media releases and the articles and listen to the interviews you will hear it a lot.Of course what Idiot/Savant, Bradford, the Vote Yes people, et al miss is that there is a world of difference between claiming a defence and succeeding in doing so. The court is not stupid and the people making the determinations of guilt or innocence in our courts are normal, everyday people. If it is so obvious to all of us that hitting a child across the face with a soup ladle is child abuse, and it is obvious to all of us, a court, made up of people like us, is not going to rule that such an action is an example of reasonable force.The 34 reported cases on the old s59 are readily available in any law library and if you read them, instead of the media reports and politicians and websites and blogs, you will see time and time and time again child abusers failing in their attempts to raise the defence of reasonable force. The majority resulted in convictions and the few that did not were more often than not due to things like it not being proven who abused the child - which is terribly sad for the child, but you can’t just convict anyone so that you can chalk up a conviction! Wrongly decided cases are a fact of life. Just like doctors making mistakes on the operating table, just like us making driving errors. We should try very hard to ensure that these do not happen but to remove a defence entirely and risk the prosecution of the innocent is not the answer. Besides, some of the cases cited in the media as being wrongly decided were not even cases where s59 was raised, other defences like self-defences were in play… shall we remove self-defence as defence?The contempt for due process does not stop here; statements like Idiot/Savants that, “The only people who oppose that are people who wish to abuse children in that way,” show that he is willing to accuse anyone of being a supporter of child abuse because they support the right of an accused to a fair trial.
Chilling. Basically once accused of something heinous, one should not be allowed to defend oneself and anyone who disagrees is morally on par with a child abuser.
There is another patently obvious flaw in Idiot/Savant’s argument; removing the defence doesn’t just prevent people who seriously abuse children from raising the defence it also prevents the wrongly accused from being able to raise it. However, without defences there is no way of separating the two. I am not speaking here of those who can stand up in court and honestly state ‘I did not touch my child,’ such accused could plead ‘not guilty,’ I am speaking of those who end up in court for smacking their children, not hitting them with soup ladles across the face; I am speaking of those who with an open hand, lightly, smack a child on the bottom once, not out of anger or in the midst of rage but in response to disobedience on the part of child. Such people cannot plead not guilty if accused of assault, they have no legal defence if they end up before a court. To remove legal defences from people innocent of child abuse to ensure that the net catches everyone is wrong.
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Madeleine Flannagan is in the final stages of her Bachelor of Law at Auckland University currently. She is a director of Thinking Matters Auckland and co-author at the MandM blog.

Don’t hit your kids, and you won’t have to go to court, simple as that.
Right… so a light smack is a criminal offence then?
It started out as “we have to stop child abusers being able to beat their child to death with a plank of wood and getting off scott free” (which they never did) to making discipline illegal (according to the exact wording of the law.
First they said “reasonable force” was too hard to define.
Then the first part of the new section 59 says “reasonable force” (whatever that is) is allowed if it is to prevent harm to the child. So keeping the term “reasonable force” in s59 never actually was an issue. To make sure of that point, subsection 2 of s59 effectively says “whatever reason you used force in subsection 1, is fine, as long as it wasn’t to discipline your child. It remains expressly illegal to discipline your child using reasonable force.
Then we have people saying “you’ll never be sent to court if you smack your child. Excpet that is rapidly changing to the illuminating wisdom of Grrr above. “Don’t smack and you will not have to go to court.”
There is a small group of people fixated on making a smack equivalent to child abuse. Unfortunately, they’ve fooled a lot of people into accepting this equivalence without too much thought, and eventually good parents WILL be punished for something trivial (and there are studies that support this).
Smacking should not be illegal. Child abuse always was. Now the State will concern itself with the trivial so it doesn’t have to face up to the real issues. There has already been a 50% increase in notifications (which the police downplay). Far easier to resolve greater numbers of trivial cases to make the percentages look good, so the serious (real) cases of notified child abuse take on a smaller proportion of the total investigations.
If smacking should be illegal, lets round up the parents of all those that wish to make smacking illegal. We’ll just make sure that none of these people are so damaged by being smacked by their parents that they are rendered incapable of making an informed and unbiased opinion. Hey Grrr, if their parents didn’t smack them they have nothing to fear. Apparently, the process of going to court etc is no big deal, even if you are innocent.
PS: And statistically, most kids of the previous generation have had the occasional smack as they grew up.
“Right… so a light smack is a criminal offence then?”
Yep! ….now a word from Otago…. “Get over it!”
[...] first one, published today, was my “No Defences Permitted For The Accused,” which is already drawing comments – feel free to jump [...]
“The court is not stupid and the people making the determinations of guilt or innocence in our courts are normal, everyday people. If it is so obvious to all of us that hitting a child across the face with a soup ladle is child abuse, and it is obvious to all of us, a court, made up of people like us, is not going to rule that such an action is an example of reasonable force.”
But these normal, everyday people still have to follow the law. If the law states that it is okay to use force as a means of correction, than the courts have to follow that. No one, to my knowledge is claiming that all defenses should be removed, they shouldn’t, like you say, it is what our society hinges on. But we can still discuss whether a defense should be accepted under the law or not.
Also, in response to Zentiger’s comments about the 50% increase in notifications, I wish you would talk to those who answer the police phones. It really annoys me when claims are made about the police which are not based in fact. Increases in notifications are a good thing, it means more people are standing up for the children. And if you do talk to a call taker at the police, ask them when the last time they got a call about a smack was. Then ask when the last call about a child who has a broken bone from “correction”.
Come on zen tiger, 50% increase? If you are allowed to make up statistics then so will I……
80% of smackers like to listen to Prodigy when they smack their kids.
(smack my b#$ch up!)
If you can’t argue your view without lying, don’t bother.
I’ve got 2 questions I’d like answered from a smacker:
1. Who would Jesus smack?
2. If you had $9million to spend on making this country a better place, what would you spend it on?
(other than having the right to inflict fear into your children)
fatboy,
1.jesus isnt in question here, what about people who don’t share ur religion so lets just not go there.
2. i would spend 9mil on lots of things actually but if ur talking about in relation to this, i would spend 9mil on better and more resources in order to PREVENT abuse rather than dealing with the result. this law currently puts more strain on our all ready backlogged underresourced system, and you answer me this when constble smith is dwn the road with social worker in hand (bcause hel have to have one) responding to a report of a smacked bum (bcause hel have to investigate) then wats happening to poor bashed up billy down the road whose waiting his turn to be seen?